Episode #45 - Exit Point Team Round Table
Exit Point Team roundtable
Matt Blank: [00:00:00] Welcome to Exit Point, a podcast about the advancement of bass jumping and the exploration of its culture. I'm Matt Blank, producer and co host. If you'd like to support this independent production, visit our buy me a coffee link in the description and leave us a review wherever you listen to podcasts.
Matt Blank: In this episode, we're celebrating a milestone in our podcast. Sometime last year, thanks to all you out there, we passed a hundred thousand downloads. And have since blown past that. So thank you all for listening and supporting us by sharing the podcast, leaving us reviews and donating so that we can continue producing the show.
Matt Blank: This episode, we're doing a round table discussion with the exit point team to talk about how we've been doing and where we hope to go as an added bonus. We've got the man behind the sound, Mark Stockwell, joining us to share his perspective. So without further ado, let's start the track.
Laurent Frat: So we wanted to do a little background about, why we started [00:01:00] this podcast and a few other things. Matt, why did, we start this
Matt Blank: podcast? I started this podcast, because I see our community facing kind of a crisis of ego, on both ends of the spectrum. I think that there are a large subset of people who, don't know very much, but are very loud.
Matt Blank: And I think there are a large subset of people who know a whole lot, who are incredibly quiet. And then there is the majority of jumpers, caught in the middle of that, war zone, trying to figure out, who's telling them valuable information. And the podcast, I think, gives a lot of voice to some of the folks that are drowned out by the, larger community.
Laurent Frat: Yeah, and so you guys had, Mark and Matt, you guys have been talking about doing some sort of project like this before I approached you, Matt, right? Yeah. [00:02:00] And then I came at you with the idea of starting this and you're like, boom, let's do it. There was like zero hesitation. and then you said, Oh yeah.
Laurent Frat: And then I got my friend Mark, who's, It would be a great addition to it as well. Mark you, I think nobody knows who you are, outside, your personal life, will you share a little bit about your background, in the sound space and then, skydiving and base jumping?
Mark Stockwell: Sure. Yeah. Yeah, I've been a production sound mixer for about 15 years in TV and film.
Mark Stockwell: And, yeah, Blank and I had talked for a while about this, topic, just like a recurring theme of, getting more information out there and the lack of information that existed. We both started skydiving around the same time, like 2007. And my perspective back then was, base jumping was such a dark art and you couldn't get information about it.
Mark Stockwell: It was really hard to access [00:03:00] any, any consistent and reliable information. And so it was always something that I was like trying to find more information on. I got better over the years, and, When I started base, still though, it was, I don't know. It was just, it was like, I had a lot of frustration that there was no like concise place to reference or to get, a lot of these voices and a lot of these, experiences from the wealth of knowledge that it was out there, it was just really hard to access.
Mark Stockwell: we'd have this conversation. Like how, what would be the best way to, to, see change in that and maybe affect a change. And, yeah, then you guys, I think came together, right? I got a call from the two of you or something. Cause I think low, you came up with the idea, For the podcast and immediately everybody was just so on board.
Mark Stockwell: It was, we were all shared the same passion for just getting the information out there. The same thing that just said, there's this, massive wealth of information that just wasn't. Really going anywhere. It was, [00:04:00] you could look up an old article someone wrote 10 years ago or something, or find someone's number, call them directly, but just to find a concise place where people had access to all this information, it was such an exciting idea.
Matt Blank: Yeah. And that's, another point is that as the community grows, there are fewer and fewer of those, fireside chats that get that information out to the people that are jumping. it used to be the community was so small that, they could just meet in a parking lot and everybody could share information.
Matt Blank: And now it's thousands of people worldwide. And it's hard to disseminate information, amongst that crew also, I think we're. Really susceptible to a form of brain drain where, the older jumpers retire, holding onto a wealth of information that never gets put down anywhere. And, all of a sudden, we are without that person and trying to figure out what they had already gone through.
Matt Blank: and [00:05:00] that's Kind of making them say mistakes over and over again. So low, why, are you, why did you start the podcast? Like, why did you call us up that day and propose the idea?
Laurent Frat: I think there's really three reasons. one was that, at my current job, they wanted to have a podcast and I didn't know how to do podcasts at the time.
Laurent Frat: And so I thought that what a better way to start learning how to, Or how to learn how to podcast by podcasting. so there was the professional element to it. And then, this was all around covid. So we had been doing camps before that and wingsuit camps and base jumping camps. And really one of the most satisfying elements of those camps for me was always the base talk, satisfying in the fact that I really felt like people left with.[00:06:00]
Laurent Frat: More knowledge and wisdom about ways to steer their own base jumping. And, they were entertaining and I felt like it was connecting with people. And I felt like I was really, that was really where I excelled at reaching, our people. And when COVID happened, all those camps were canceled. The future of camps were uncertain.
Laurent Frat: And I wanted to keep the ball rolling with that was also a big transition period of my life. I was, a new dad and, I had started a new full time job and, my future of coaching was, called into question. So I didn't really see myself continuing on that path of traveling all over the place to do wings to camps.
Laurent Frat: And so I wanted, but I wanted to continue to give back because I felt like I had received so much and I just wanted to leave [00:07:00] something that's given me so much better than I found it. And I thought this was probably the most effective way that I could do that.
Matt Blank: Yeah. I can, definitely, parrot that sentiment that those like base talks were very satisfying.
Matt Blank: And I think that's another reason why I really enjoy doing this podcast is that I think public perception of base jumping has started to drive its culture. In that, the public perception of bass jumping is that we're a bunch of crazy assholes who, don't really know what's going on and, have this, wish for death and all this other stuff.
Matt Blank: But then when you finally sit down with a crew of people who are just getting into it and they can hear from someone like you, they, understand that there is a different culture inside of bass jumping. Yeah,
Laurent Frat: absolutely. And that's really what the third point that drove me to do this was because, I work in journalism and [00:08:00] what I was experiencing, it didn't tell the story correctly.
Laurent Frat: And I really looking in the wider media space, there's no movies, there's no books, there's nothing out there that really helps us to identify what this is really all about. And I didn't. Think that there was a possibly a better option than these long form discussions that we've been having as far as like really articulating and illustrating in audio form, what, base jumping is all about.
Matt Blank: Yeah. And that's an interesting point. What base jumping is all about, which if you do look at the media, that's out there and the movies that are out there and the books that are out there. And Marco and I were just talking about this, all of them or most of them. And. With the protagonist dying at the end.
Matt Blank: Yeah. and it's so like the public perception and the most of the media that's driving that, is leading to the conclusion that like base jumping is completely unsustainable [00:09:00] and 100 percent of the time, if you stay in it, you're going to end up dead.
Mark Stockwell: Yeah, it makes it that much easier to dismiss the entire thing too, right?
Mark Stockwell: And not take it seriously. You already have a limited window, like the general public has such a limited window of what they see of base and then all they do see is oh, this like nonsensically self touting heroic act where you just die in the end. Why would we care about, increasing access and funding towards that?
Mark Stockwell: Not
Laurent Frat: right. Yeah. And there's just so many good stories, we've talked about education and community outreach and, doing what's best for the sport and whatnot. But let's be honest, like some of our friends have some of the most incredible stories of, survival and, what have you, just.
Laurent Frat: Experiencing these crazy adventures and, it's just really a shame. I thought it would be a shame to not capture those in the best way that I know how.
Matt Blank: Totally. I think one of my favorites on that [00:10:00] note is Sarah Taz's episode. While like we did that at the beginning, I think it's like episode two or three.
Matt Blank: and it's, we were just starting out. So technically it's not the greatest episode, but her story is incredible and it's about, her wingsuiting through the mountains and going in and surviving. and I think one of the things that, that really draws me to that episode is that along the way, she's incredibly honest about the, decisions that she makes to continue on that trajectory toward going in.
Matt Blank: surviving, it allows us to hear all those decision points. And I think give some clarity to people who are on that trajectory, either like in total or on a specific jump, to kick one of those dominoes out and go Whoa, This, road leads there.
Mark Stockwell: Oh, totally, man. Yeah.
Mark Stockwell: we talk about this a lot too. the importance of, [00:11:00] the birds page and even just these detailed incident reports. it exposes so much in that jump of hers was what? Like 10 or 15 seconds in total. And there's so much knowledge gained from. From that moving forward just because she was honest and came forward with it and You know was open to discussing it here.
Mark Stockwell: It was just such an incredibly valuable thing to hear, you
Laurent Frat: know Yeah, that candid nature of taz and like how forthcoming she was about her feelings and everything that happened is really what made it. Yeah, and I yeah, I just hope that other future guests will be inspired to follow suit because yeah, when The guest is honest and forthcoming with their story and really sharing, the nitty gritty.
Laurent Frat: It's
Matt Blank: so much better. And that's a tough thing to do too, in this current culture, I think. they're, it's hard to voice an unpopular opinion, it's hard to put down on a [00:12:00] track, something that is a declarative statement, even if though it's framed in the now moment, people are wary of making, strong statements and, voicing unpopular opinions, but, as you can see, the result of doing that is that fewer people will, make those critical errors.
Matt Blank: if we're, honest about the mistakes that we've made. I'm curious, to ask you guys on the note of Sarah Taz and her episode, are there any other episodes that, stick out in your mind to revisit
Laurent Frat: when you say
Mark Stockwell: revisit, you mean discuss or re bring the guest on
Matt Blank: revisit in the sense of go back to you.
Matt Blank: we've done 44 episodes now. and. some of the ones from back when we started, again, least technical, but like some of the greatest stories, I'll bring up mine for instance. it's Chris [00:13:00] Burns. I think that one is worth everybody revisiting. because unfortunately, he went in after we've, recorded the episode.
Matt Blank: And so it's, just really interesting to hear how he sounds. Yeah,
Laurent Frat: that's a difficult question for me because I feel like, stepping back, just this whole podcast project. one thing for me is that I've. Feel like I've learned more about communicating than any other exercise I've done in my entire life.
Laurent Frat: The, fact of having this microphone in front of my face, the headphones in my ears, and just having this either two on one or one on one conversation that's focused for an hour and a half, We do not do that in our normal lives. We have so much distraction, where we have our activities, we have phones, we have all, [00:14:00] whatever the distractions of life.
Laurent Frat: It is incredibly rare to sit down and have this kind of focus. And, I just feel really fortunate to be able to connect with all of these really awesome people that we have so far. So I can't really say there's one that sticks out more than the other. They all seem to have a level of value.
Laurent Frat: And for me, this. Interviewing, is a skill that I want to continue to hone and hone. and making people feel comfortable with the technology, being able to be forthcoming. It's something that I want to continue to get better with. And each one of the guests has helped me along that way to develop the skill.
Laurent Frat: And, I'm just looking forward to, doing more of these and getting better and better at it. And I'm sure, I hope that everybody who's been a guest so far will be a future guest for a number two, because [00:15:00] there's just so much stuff we haven't covered so many times that I've stopped the record button and gone Oh my God, we didn't cover this.
Laurent Frat: We didn't remember when this happened. there's just so many instances. That I want to touch on with all
Matt Blank: of these guests and, or times that we've had an entire interview, hit the cutting room floor because we just didn't technically do a great job of it. Yeah,
Mark Stockwell: that's happened. Yeah. We've had a few of those.
Matt Blank: Yeah, I'd love to revisit some of those. Like the first one we ever tried to do with Rich Webb. Oh boy.
Laurent Frat: Yeah. Rich, if you're listening to this, man, we love you. Thank you. yeah. And, we need to get you back on, more in the style that we've, we've picked up along the way of just about talking about your life and everything you've picked up along the way.
Laurent Frat: That would be fantastic.
Mark Stockwell: Yeah. We were learning a lot still at that time. That was like first episode we ever tried. And we had some, growing pains early on, but. This was really the
Laurent Frat: transition where we had this idea of it would just be an educational, training piece, [00:16:00] right? This would be audio for learning.
Laurent Frat: And then it was like, wait a second, we have all these stories that everyone has to tell and this can really be part entertainment, part, Learning and I think we're constantly playing with that balance of is this entertainment? Is this learning? And, yeah, we're going to continue to find that balance, in the future.
Matt Blank: that's a question that people keep bringing up to us that, might be worth posing right now, which is, how are we choosing guests?
Laurent Frat: Yeah, I can say it was starting from episode one. Matias, I picked Matias for the first episode. I guess that would really after Rich because I knew he was really articulate and had a lot of public speaking experience and I knew that we could piggyback on his articulate.
Laurent Frat: And, [00:17:00] he really did a great job of talking about, his experience and being an advocate of, of, self promoter. And that's really a difficult thing, I think for a lot of our guests, because, it's, it takes, that's not easy, right? Is to talk about the things that you've done, with a level of humility.
Laurent Frat: it's hard. And, I think he does that really well. And so I knew he would be a great guest and, and I've known him for a long time. He was there for my first jump and, and it was another great excuse to have a fantastic conversation
Matt Blank: with him. Yeah. I think, checking humble at the door is something that's difficult, but necessary for these conversations and for bass jumping in general.
Matt Blank: I think oftentimes we find that the people that know a whole lot are More apt to say [00:18:00] that they don't know anything at all. And we don't get the value of, their insights, versus I think like sustainable base jumping requires us to say, Hey, I know at least this much, and if not, how are we even executing these things?
Matt Blank: I hope that like more people out there that, have some idea of base jumping are willing to come on and drop humble at the door and just take a chance and say Hey, this is what I think I know. it might change tomorrow, but throw it down.
Laurent Frat: Yeah.
Mark Stockwell: There's a lot of silent bad asses out there that we want to hear from.
Mark Stockwell: We want to have on here desperately.
Laurent Frat: Yeah. 100%.
Matt Blank: So back to like how we're choosing those people. Mark, you got any, opinion on like how we're continuing? I know this has changed from episode to episode. But, what are you looking [00:19:00] for in a guest? You
Mark Stockwell: know, my favorite thing about this show is how much we get to help share, but also how much we learn.
Mark Stockwell: I learn so much from every single episode. we've got this incredible wealth of, of people and stories and experiences and knowledge out there to pick from. And we're at this point where we still have just so many people we want to have on. And it's, more logistical trouble than anything else.
Mark Stockwell: Just because people all over the world, we're trying to get mics to them. We're trying to line up time zones all over the planet and everything, but we have so many great people to hear from. And I am just, I, my favorite episodes I think are the people or the ones that, expose blind spots, in my knowledge where like I think Dr.
Mark Stockwell: Matt Wilkes episode, for instance, like he was. Talking about, medical help in the field and things to be more prepared for trauma care and, just areas that, a lot of people, you know, myself and a lot of people maybe I jump with, have an idea [00:20:00] of how we, theoretical knowledge of all these things.
Mark Stockwell: And to hear someone come on like that with a really in depth detailed, knowledge base in, this space that can share so much. It's it's exciting for me because I get to hear and learn about, an in depth process that it takes, takes these pieces from the unknown into the known in a really great way.
Mark Stockwell: And so there's been so many episodes like that, that, looking for this, looking for these blind spots and the knowledge and trying to find more dark corners to expose. That's, what kind of gets me the most excited, but I love it all. I love hearing stories from friends and, hearing, bad ass achievements, but also people that, don't, don't have a lot of publicity, people that, Aren't often in the front of the spotlight, there's just, it's really cool to see what these people have to offer.
Mark Stockwell: let's
Matt Blank: address that for a second, because I think there's also a public perception and I get this from like the messages that I receive on social media and by email, but I think there's a public perception that we have a [00:21:00] certain type of person that we're trying to invite on the podcast, and there are a lot of people that might have something to say that are very shy about it because they're like, Oh, I'm not, like some professional bass jumper, I.
Matt Blank: I don't belong here, versus I don't think that we're approaching it from that angle.
Mark Stockwell: Yeah. We're just looking for value and, and, context, there's a lot of it out there. And yeah, we, it has been a struggle to get people to, there's so many people that are so humble and so not used to being put, in the spotlight.
Mark Stockwell: And. Diving into these things in a public way. And so it's, they're uncomfortable with it or just, it just feels, it feels you know, unnatural that usually is where the most amazing information comes from. Yeah.
Laurent Frat: On that, I think that, it's important to hear from the touted experts. like the people who've been around for a long [00:22:00] time.
Laurent Frat: But I think it's also important to hear people from every aspect of the progression and path of the practice, because, when I was a firefighter, our, captain, I was on this hand crew and, we, we did some dangerous shit and he was. He was always like, I don't care if you're the new guy or you've been on this team for five years.
Laurent Frat: I want everyone to speak their mind. If they see something that they're questioning. And I think that, like what Mark said, that everybody uncovering those dark spots can come from every aspect of, or every, experience level. And I think it's important for us to not only hear the stories of people at different stages, but also to.
Laurent Frat: Come at these activities with a fresh pair of eyes. Cause you know, I'm, and personally, I'm excited to interview more people that are like base adjacent that [00:23:00] maybe have done a few base jumps and, are more active in other, mountain adventure sports. like we have, people in our community who are professional mountain guides who are.
Laurent Frat: Paragliding pilots, competitive paragliding pilots, skiers. the list goes on and on and there's so much to learn from these people. Even if they've haven't decided to dedicate themselves to base jumping, they still have a lot to contribute.
Matt Blank: Totally. Yeah. in their mentality to approaching dangerous situations.
Matt Blank: Because a lot of those sports that you've mentioned and a lot of those activities have had a longer track record of people surviving. Yeah. And succeeding and doing radical stuff, versus like bass jumping is still relatively new, 19, late 1980s, early, mid 1980s to now versus like mountaineering, which has been around for hundreds of years.
Matt Blank: Yeah.
Laurent Frat: 100%.
Mark Stockwell: And also, and these people are specialists in [00:24:00] things that base jumpers like dabble in. it's been so many times, I've been in an area or something around a base jump and there's someone who's repelling for the first time ever to a base jump. they have zero mountaineering experience, but they put themselves in a mountaineering situation because of the base jump requires it, but they don't get to hear from somebody who was, that's their thing.
Mark Stockwell: That's what they do. And if you're going to start creeping into this world of, being in the Alpine environment or being in an environment that they're. Not used to at all, but someone else has an absolute specialty in the skill side, it's really important to get that information out there. let's
Matt Blank: address this small elephant in the room to some of the other messages that I get are about, like, why don't you have this person on, or, is this person right?
Matt Blank: And I think sometimes, people. Think that you have to be popular in order to be on the podcast, or like we might shy away from somebody because, they have a bad reputation for X, Y, or Z, and I'd like to address that and, get you guys [00:25:00] opinion on it, do we give a shit?
Matt Blank: Who somebody is outside of base jumping, or are we just looking for value for, their base jumping or adjacent expertise?
Laurent Frat: I know, personally, maybe I'm going back to the same theme, but, when I don't agree with somebody, It's a harder interview. it's harder to extract workable knowledge.
Laurent Frat: It's hard to have a conversation. It's hard to, balance the pushback with the, storytelling. And, I may have shied away with, from some interviews with people that I don't relate to in the way that they practice. so in that regard, I would say that it's not because I don't see that there's value in it.
Laurent Frat: It's that, maybe I just. Either was lazy about it or didn't feel ready. [00:26:00] But then also, I don't want anybody to think that they're on that list because they haven't been a guest yet. our list of wants and, even the people that have confirmed are, is, Really long. So I think that, there's only been a couple of names that have come up where I went, Oh, this is going to take some, moment to chew on.
Laurent Frat: I don't know my, personal workflow. I don't know about you, Matt, but is, I get the idea of a guest and I chew on it about what I want to talk to them about for a long time. I think about how I'm going to approach it. I think about what the direction that I want it to go. potential.
Laurent Frat: Ways that they can respond and it occupies, A lot of mental space. And yeah, I don't know where I'm going with this, but that's, really been my process of choosing
Matt Blank: guests. totally. Yeah. It takes a [00:27:00] lot of mental, capacity just to hold on to a certain conversation with somebody, when they say Hey, I want to do this, like I started thinking about it for weeks and maybe a month.
Matt Blank: And it's like constantly on my mind. And then I've got to hold that space, until we have that conversation. I think I, I'd also like to dispel the rumor that, we're like intentionally choosing these people. Like a lot of the times, like all three of us have our just heads below water and we're trying to churn.
Matt Blank: And the person pops up and we're like, yes, we have the time and we have the space and there's something to say and let's put them on, So if you're out there and you haven't been approached by us at all, it's not because we don't find value in approaching you. There might be some people that are like.
Matt Blank: Epic that would have the greatest conversations. And it's just that we, literally just don't have the space,
Laurent Frat: Yeah.
Mark Stockwell: Yeah. Like, we were saying earlier, the wealth of knowledge is so big. It's we have 44 episodes now, which [00:28:00] is. Exciting. And I know we're all proud of that number, but it's man, that's 44 of a couple hundred, at least that you can come up off the top of our head of people we really want to have on here immediately, So it's just the logistics, the time and the availability and getting, to everybody we want to hear from. It's just going to take some time. Yeah. I know. No, you certainly don't have to be popular to, to be on, I don't think that's ever been a requirement. and even, yeah, like as long as there's objective value in the thing, that's all that really matters.
Mark Stockwell: everybody's got a unique perspective that comes on here. And I've never heard an episode that I didn't learn something from, at least personally that I didn't, expand knowledge into some direction or give a new perspective, at least on something else that, I hadn't thought about as much as they had, or, hadn't, I didn't have anywhere near that kind of experience.
Mark Stockwell: It's all. And so no matter who it is or how it goes or their personality type or how, if they've never used a microphone on a computer before, or if they're a person who's trained in interviews and as a professional athlete, [00:29:00] there's always been some, amount of value that comes out of every episode and that's the most important thing to me, no matter what I do.
Matt Blank: Yeah, I think that's an important part to parrot here, which is like the popularity thing has, nothing to do with, how we're selecting these, at the root of this, we're trying to disseminate information that'll save people's lives. and whether we might disagree with somebody or not, get along with them in public or hell, like to take this to an extreme degree, they might be the worst murdering, son of a bitch on the planet, but if they've got some expertise or perspective or story that somehow Helps our community.
Matt Blank: I think they're worth hearing from.
Mark Stockwell: Yeah. Especially at this point in the process, when that's we're at the beginning of this journey to, bring this information to the masses and. This is the way we're
Laurent Frat: doing it. Bring, bringing the information to the masses was a real shock for me. [00:30:00] honestly, when we started this, I thought that, maybe we would have, a couple of nerds and our parents listening to this and that would be about it.
Laurent Frat: And, now we average at, something like, three to 4, 000 downloads per episode. That's, that's way more people than I expected and way more people that don't jump, which is wild. I did not anticipate that at all. those are some of my favorite, emails and comments that we get is, people that either are base curious or just admire it or just curious about it.
Laurent Frat: Or it's just, it really brings me joy to know that we're, helping to fill that void and, Share what this is all about again.
Mark Stockwell: Yeah, that's, one of the biggest goals for me as well. And this, I think is, I know we've all talked about this as a changing public [00:31:00] perception over time.
Mark Stockwell: it's one thing that's incredible is getting this information directly to people right away, but it also starts to drive the ship in that direction where there's not just, two pieces of media where someone dies and that's the only thing people know about base jumping, there's starting to be a conversation that.
Mark Stockwell: Is slowly branching out beyond jumpers, where people are seeing the work that goes into it, the stories that go into it and, getting the broader picture as we go. And hopefully that keeps going in that same direction. And hopefully that means that, in the future it can dramatically change the public perception of base jumping and make it better.
Matt Blank: along that line and, aside from the numbers, how do you guys think we're doing?
Laurent Frat: Yeah, again, like honing the craft of interviewing, I think is a never ending process. I feel like we're getting better. I think, the scheduling issue was really challenging. being on point with, all of our equipment and everything has been a [00:32:00] challenge and I think all of that is just really starting to fall into place.
Laurent Frat: I honestly feel like we're just starting to hit our stride and, Yeah, I'm looking forward to, what 2024 is going to bring.
Matt Blank: Mark, you're behind the curtain on all this. How are we doing?
Mark Stockwell: Oh, man. Yeah. The growth has been amazing. I've got a long career in TV and stuff, but, podcast was a totally new thing for all of us when we started doing this.
Mark Stockwell: And, we didn't know how the, how it was going to look. We know we wanted to make it a really formattable, recognizable. We wanted to have a simple format and we just didn't know where to start. And there was a lot of question marks and a lot of technical issues, a lot of logistical issues. in the beginning, we were only doing two on one episodes and scheduling Laurent in France, Matt in Utah, a guest in Norway, getting a mic out there.
Mark Stockwell: it's just the hurdles we were trying to solve. we'd spend a month on trying to get an episode to work. And then the one day it's supposed to work, some little issue would happen and the whole thing would fall apart. And it was like, [00:33:00] So the hardest thing I think was creating something that made sense, was doable and was consistent, consistency was so hard early on, especially just because we had these cards stacked in a certain way.
Mark Stockwell: And yeah, over time, everything's gotten better. Sometimes I go back and listen to the early episodes and I'm just blown away about how much better it's come. it's only getting better, the interviews are getting better. The tech is getting better. They everything's sounding better.
Mark Stockwell: It's just, and we're hitting our stride again with, Logistics, trying to make it more repeatable, trying to make it more consistent. There's still struggles. It's still hard. There's still people all over the world. We're still trying to get Mike's all over the world. We're still trying to line up crazy schedules and things happen at the last minute, things change and it is difficult.
Mark Stockwell: we're all live busy lives. We're all working and there's times when things just get insane for a few weeks and it's really hard to, keep it consistent, but. I'm really proud of the growth that we've shown and now starting to even branch into some newer things, some, maybe future partnerships, maybe other projects, [00:34:00] maybe making bigger episodes where, I think we're consistently inching forward in a way that, works in a sustainable and I'm super excited for the next year for sure.
Mark Stockwell: Yeah.
Matt Blank: I also think, we are equal parts doing this thing. Great. Considering where we started, but also not nearly doing good enough. considering what our goals are, what, what do you guys think we can do, to make the podcast better moving forward? I
Laurent Frat: know personally that I would like to do a better job of hitting that record button, after getting people more comfortable.
Laurent Frat: Not everybody works in front of a computer or, does regular video conference calls. And I think some of our guests have needed a little bit more support before the recording starts. And I think that being able to empathize where they are at and how [00:35:00] they're, what they're able to share. Before I start land, launching some questions in their direction is really like the key of, for me, as far as extracting valuable knowledge and insight.
Matt Blank: That's hard not to do though. I feel like one of the things we could do better is just get to the point quicker, which might mean that we do a little more of that prep work, and, cut out some, Back and forth before the recording starts. But I feel like diving into some of these topics, like right off the top, might make a better overall, podcast since, if we start right at the meat, we might get to some of the fringe things that like you said, we never get to, and you're like, you hit the record button.
Matt Blank: You're like, ah, man, like we missed that, yeah, I think we leave a lot on the
Laurent Frat: table. There's a lot to cover in an hour and a half. And, [00:36:00] there's, it's a balance, it's a delicate balancing act, I think. And, we're dealing with humans, we are humans, and there's a very strong human element to talking about these really sensitive stories sometimes, we're talking about on one side of the spectrum, people's most, Beautiful moments of their lives to some of the darkest, most tragic points in their lives.
Laurent Frat: for us to just jump right in and expect to get, right to the heart of it, Isn't always appropriate, but again, humans, sometimes that the guest is, ready for that. Sometimes the guest has been prompted and, is ready to dive in and other times they're not.
Matt Blank: Yeah. Yeah. I feel
Laurent Frat: you. And while we're talking about goals too, is I think the way that I would like to continue working and structuring the, these is.
Laurent Frat: Having a little bit more concrete [00:37:00] idea of what we're going to cover first and what can bring, those emotions to the surface. And I think telling stories is the way to go for, me and the way that I want to approach it and getting our guests to share some of their favorite stories right off the bat and, following up with, the meat of it, as you put it.
Matt Blank: I totally agree with you. I, I found that, the most valuable. learning tools, educational tools, coincide with stories are like alongside stories, there's two ways that I've seen myself learn in this sport. And one is through direct experience, Oh shit, I messed that up.
Matt Blank: Don't do that again. and two is to see somebody mess up. And go man, I was about to do the exact same thing. Let me like change direct, direction. and then story is like the, sideline of that, [00:38:00] where if somebody has a really good story, I'm able to put myself in those shoes.
Matt Blank: Or alongside that person and see myself making those critical errors or succeeding where they, have succeeded and thus, progress in a way that I wouldn't have without having to learn a hard lesson. Yeah, absolutely. yeah, I agree with you. I think we should be telling more stories and, less just,
Mark Stockwell: Yeah, I think it comes with also not going in with, specific expectations on the kind of knowledge that you're going to gain from the interview, cause when you bust out the flashlight, if you're looking for something specific, you're, you'll find it, but you're going to miss all the other stuff that's around it, and I think getting, giving people the opportunity to explore those stories and tell, tell a broader, Picture of it may take more time, but I don't care about how long it takes.
Mark Stockwell: I want to hear the [00:39:00] information and that's typically where I'm most surprised and most excited and most engaged is when like all these, this new perspective that I would have never even thought of starts emerging just by shining a light on this person's story. that, that hasn't had a light shined on it on a big platform before,
Matt Blank: and I think.
Matt Blank: exposure is, definitely a goal of mine and to expose culture that's been drowned out by the radness of base jumping, quite often what is just the end result of somebody's work, but you never see the work, you just see them like flying off a cliff and skis or like ripping down a terrain line in a wingsuit, or doing some crazy stunt, whatever.
Matt Blank: but. Very seldom, if not ever, do you see the work that went into that, the training that went into that, the calculation that went into that. And so our, culture is like still grip it and rip it, versus. I think the underlying culture is where base jumping began, which is [00:40:00] a group of basically scientists who were also, extreme sports enthusiasts.
Mark Stockwell: No, I love that point too. I think that's such a, something I'm so passionate about too, with, this type of project is. That's, that was the conversations that revolved when you and I first started talking about this, Matt, too, was, yeah, no one's seeing the work. It's like such a small percentage of base jumping is base jumping, like it's such a small detail in the big picture is the actual part where you jump off the cliff and land on the ground safely.
Mark Stockwell: And nobody got to see that stuff. And, all the media you would see was either just a highlight reel of, exit cool fly by exit, look at this, rap, rad lines, but you'd see none of the work. And I liked that our podcast is the opposite. there's no base jumping on our podcast.
Mark Stockwell: it's just all of the work in behind the scenes and like the real story that's going on that there's no previous exposure to, or, not, a large amount of previous, exposure to, And I want to see that trend keep going because people are just Dedicating their lives to doing this amazing thing.
Mark Stockwell: and [00:41:00] people just see this one little snippet on their phone for 30 seconds, Oh, that was cool. And then they go to the next thing and just never get the big picture of what was happening. And I think that's, to me, that's the most exciting stuff.
Matt Blank: So what else do we hope to achieve with what we're doing?
Matt Blank: what do we want for our listeners, our community, ourselves?
Laurent Frat: for myself, I, like Mark really touched on a bunch is like learning from all of our guests is just. Continuing to hone this blade of a skill, for my own jumping and making sure that I don't leave any trace uncovered, no rock unturned and being able to see all the beauty and the danger.
Laurent Frat: And, having these conversations definitely does that. I haven't been able to be as active as I have in the past few years. And I feel like having these conversations keeps me at current in a certain way. Not necessarily [00:42:00] skills wise. like I'm continuing to have to train my skills, but it's keeping my, mind straight and strong.
Laurent Frat: And that was an element that I didn't quite expect, like thinking about jumping, thinking about the process, thinking about everything that goes into it is really like visualization. Like all of our guests that are really high performance athletes and within the base space are all talking about visualization and.
Laurent Frat: This has been my own sort of sense of visualization and, yeah, I've, it's really given me a lot.
Matt Blank: Mark.
Mark Stockwell: Yeah, totally. personal knowledge is something I'm unbelievably grateful for that I get out of this. I learned so much from every single episode. I really, love how much I get to, learn just from being a part of this process.
Mark Stockwell: many other goals are one I really, want to help provide, [00:43:00] a resource that I wish I had when I was getting into base, there's a lot of people who are maybe base curious or, just thinking about base and it's not the easiest thing to just go out there and gain a lot of access to.
Mark Stockwell: So someone who's just thinking about it and just trying to wrap their head around it can actually now listen to all these people and have a huge. Amount of, input and perspective, just going into the first decision making all the way through your whole progression. you have something for everybody, wherever, at what stage you are in the progression, there's something to learn from somebody on here and to continue to grow that.
Mark Stockwell: So that's accessible to everybody is really important. And third, is to change the perception over time of base jumping, like I agree with you, Matt and, load this, the public perception of base jumping has historically been really weak, we know, and especially in America, it's mostly illegal.
Mark Stockwell: It's very frowned upon, very misunderstood. And no one takes the time to understand it. But there also isn't really a great way for them to, even if they wanted to take the time to understand it, because, [00:44:00] like for surfing, when, the, endless summary came out, people, there was a moment where it clicked, it was like, Oh, these aren't just a bunch of like dirty bums out doing rowdy stuff.
Mark Stockwell: There's this beautiful story being told and you got to see the work and the adventure and the why, and the how and see this incredible journey. People got to see. surfing from a surfers perspective, and this hopefully allows us to show base jumping from a base jumpers perspective, not just from a social media perspective or something where it's about getting rad, I want, the world to see what we see when we do this.
Laurent Frat: Yeah, I've definitely echo everything you said that there, Mark. And I think that's We had this conversation off camera or off mic, a few weeks back at about do we want for the podcast? do we just want to continue the way that we're going? do we want to just maintain and have this sustainable or do we want it to grow?
Laurent Frat: And if we want it to grow, why do we want it to grow? [00:45:00] And I want to see it grow for that very reason. Just so that we can hit those people, change some perception and see our sport change for the better.
Matt Blank: Yeah, a hundred percent. Yeah, on my end, I think for the listeners, what I want is very much the same as what Mark just said is an unobscured window.
Matt Blank: Into base jumping, such that they could, gain a greater understanding of it, if they're interested in pursuing it, or if they're not interested in pursuing it, maybe they, get some insights from our extreme behavior that allow them to do something great with, the passions that they have without having to follow us over the edge and risk their life.
Matt Blank: as, as far as community goes, that one's pretty simple for me. I'd everyone to be able to jump intentionally. [00:46:00] And I think that is separate from motivation. I think life coaches have fucked up the English language when it comes to understanding intention.
Matt Blank: And for me, intention has nothing to do, with purpose. it has to do with how much purpose. You've put into it, and in order to put purpose into something, you need an incredible amount of information. You have to be informed to make that choice. otherwise you are essentially doing something unintentionally.
Matt Blank: If you like, you, if you subscribe to that notion that you don't know what you don't know, then that is by default unintentional because you could not have purposely done that thing. And, through the podcast, I'm hoping that we put out. More information so that people can make, informed decisions.
Matt Blank: And, at the end of the day, at [00:47:00] the extreme version of this, at least take some intention into the end of their life. it's so tragic when somebody goes in unintentionally. And it's at least some, it serves as, some solace, Yeah. Thank you. When, you get somebody like Chris Burns, who at the very least met his end with intention.
Matt Blank: And for myself, I think I just, want to get out of the sport with a clear conscience. like I, I know that I've picked up a lot along the way from everybody that came before me and all of my, friends. That I've met along the way. some of them still here, some of them not, but I've benefited greatly from all of the people who have put time and energy into my personal progression.
Matt Blank: And I think it's like my duty [00:48:00] to try and leave all that on the table before I'm too old to, for anyone to listen. and, people might not listen, but at least I've done my best to try and, put that out there so that it's available. so that's, for me, what, I'm trying to get out of the podcast.
Matt Blank: So it's,
Laurent Frat: hard to follow up really
Matt Blank: well said. okay. Then, next thing on the list and kind of the last element to this, particular episode is how can people help?
Laurent Frat: first, wow. the flow of support that we've received is. Shocking, amazing, and heartwarming. everybody that supported us through, buy me a coffee.
Laurent Frat: it's just way more than I expected. And everyone that's taken the time to pause an episode and just follow that link and donate. I guess we should tell them like, That money goes to our equipment, our subscription fees. [00:49:00] And when I say equipment, our microphones and every, most of the guests receive a microphone, we ship them a microphone.
Laurent Frat: And that's the way that we can get capture the audio at the end. This quality, we've done a couple, that we wanted to capture fast and we, they had some headphones or we got suckered into thinking that they had something good when it wasn't, but we're learning and we want to continue to deliver that really quality audio sound.
Laurent Frat: Yeah. I don't even know how to thank all these people. It's just amazing. What I mean, back to our goals a little bit, I love to really have more engagement with the people that are supporting us. we've talked about, some of the partnerships that are coming down the pipe and being able to offer some gifts to these people and, really bringing them in closer, would be fantastic.
Laurent Frat: Cause. I love that connection. This is a really strange medium. cause it's just [00:50:00] usually like a couple of people, in a dark room with the microphones talking, and then Mark works on it, tools it up. We put an intro at the beginning and then we upload it and then it's out in the ether.
Laurent Frat: And, then I'll go to the wingsuit tunnel and. A bunch of people will come up to me and be like, Hey man, I love exit point. And it's just, it doesn't have the sort of feedback, the rapid feedback that you get from, let's say social media or doing something in the real life, real world. there's a different element to it.
Laurent Frat: I don't know if that's been your guys experience as well, but, it's really interesting and extremely satisfying when we hear from people that they, enjoy the podcast and that they got a lot out of it. And yeah, which is. Want to continue to, to develop and, strengthen those,
Mark Stockwell: connections.
Mark Stockwell: Yeah, same. I'm always just blown away at how [00:51:00] well received it is. we were in the same boat when we first made this thing. We were like, Oh, at least our moms will know why we based up now, that's pretty much the goal, like no one else is going to listen to this. so it's, yeah, it's been amazing.
Mark Stockwell: honestly, We haven't really touched on this. So the whole point we wanted to do this episode was for a hundred thousand download, we wanted to do an episode celebrating that and talking about the podcast, but before we could even do it, we made it to 150, 000 because you guys just keep listening to it.
Mark Stockwell: to see the consistent growth and to see. that people are enjoying it and still spreading it and increasing listening and that it's branching out, it's amazing. And then, yeah, I'm just completely blown away. the people that have taken the time and energy and money out of their life to donate, to help this thing stay afloat and stay alive.
Mark Stockwell: It's just been really incredible. we didn't expect any of it going into this, and we were trying to just put one foot in front of the other and just to deliver this thing and to see that it's been so well received and so well supported by the communities. It's really inspiring and it [00:52:00] really, helps drive the thing forward.
Mark Stockwell: And even if you don't, see that it really, behind the scenes helps a lot and it, something we want to continue to do and be able to continue to give back to the listeners, that's what. That's what low hinted to a second ago with some of the partnerships that there'll be stuff coming up this year.
Mark Stockwell: We're trying to find ways to help re engage and give back to the community even more and find new ways to do that. this relationship that's being formed in the community is really
Laurent Frat: been very special.
Matt Blank: Yeah. For me, if you agree with what we're doing, our mission, our goal, and you feel like helping the first thing for me is listening, just keep listening, keep listening to us, keep listening to everybody that's talking about base, to be honest.
Matt Blank: And if there's something that you agree with, share it, we put this podcast out for free. I don't give a crap. If, you take something that you find valuable on here and you share it, make a real. Post a clip. [00:53:00] I doesn't matter, get, get more listening going.
Matt Blank: Even if it's like, a statement that somebody makes, like you go back and listen to Scotty Bob's episode. And there's something that he quotes in there that you enjoy, share that, and if it's something that you don't disagree with, give us feedback. don't stop listening just because you disagree with something that we've done or something that we've said, or somebody that put on, give us the feedback of, why you disagree, allow us to, address the issues.
Matt Blank: and if it's something technical that you think we could be doing better, give us that feedback. there are so many different ways that you can engage with us on social media, by email, calling us up. Incredibly available. So give us that
Laurent Frat: email. Emails were the best. Yeah. And, guest suggestions have been fantastic.
Laurent Frat: and the way that guests suggestions can be even more fantastic is if you [00:54:00] contact them directly. It's so much more powerful when people say, Hey, I want to hear from you. Will you go on that podcast? And, it also seems that the legwork of trying to figure out how to contact them, sometimes they're in our network and sometimes they're not.
Laurent Frat: but, yeah. help us out. It's
Matt Blank: we totally love the help. Let me, expand on that one for a second. I know a lot of people are out there and they are. Waiting to be approached by anybody, us, anybody to, offer what they have, but it helps us a great deal if somebody comes out and goes yo, dude, I've got something that I want to put on the track, And that starts with somebody going Hey, I think you'd be valuable on the podcast. Would you do it? And then, having that conversation, so that they hit us up and go, look, I've This is what I want to throw down right now. We've saved a ton of back and forth, and we know that person is motivated, has [00:55:00] something to say, and we can tailor the episode around that versus having to do a lot of backend work of trying to pull somebody into, the zone.
Laurent Frat: Yeah, absolutely. And also something that I want to touch on too, is that, we don't have to do a deep dive into your life. If I'm, if You're a potential guest. There's been a couple of people who I really want to get on here and have just sent a place in their life where they're not ready for some deep introspection or, analyzation.
Laurent Frat: And, that's cool. We don't need to talk about all the stuff we can talk about. We can do a 30 minute episode. We can talk about just wingsuit coaching. We can talk about just slider down jumping. it doesn't need to be, always be a deep dive. I love to go deep dive, but, if, that's the thing stopping you from getting on the podcast with us, we can adjust.
Matt Blank: Yeah. And also it's worth mentioning that everybody that comes on the show to record with [00:56:00] us gets the option of leaving it on the cutting room floor. if at the end of the episode, you just really don't like what you said or how you said it, that's fine, man, we're, here to make people comfortable and, Showcase their best and absolutely not, put out anything that you would disagree with or not want it in the public space.
Laurent Frat: Yeah. 100%.
Mark Stockwell: Totally. Just don't be humble. There's so many people that come on, like I got nothing to say. And then they have an amazing episode and we're like, what,
Laurent Frat: what? This is a few of those, haven't there? Yeah.
Matt Blank: I think we've just about covered everything that we need to for a hundred K episode. thanks everybody for listening.
Matt Blank: Really. you make this worthwhile. If it wasn't for you, we'd not be doing this. So thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
Laurent Frat: Thank you very much for the a hundred and a hundred thousand, which is now the hundred and sixty something thousand [00:57:00] episodes. love you all.
Mark Stockwell: Thanks to the guests. Thanks to the listeners.
Mark Stockwell: Thanks for supporting this whole thing and looking forward to growing more this year and in the future.
Laurent Frat: We hope you enjoyed this episode of exit point. Please help us grow by telling a friend about an episode you enjoyed and leaving us a review wherever you listen to podcasts. If you would like to contribute, you can visit our buy me a coffee link in the description. If you want to get in touch, our email address is in the show notes, or you can visit our website, exitpointpodcast.
Matt Blank: com.
